Replied By: doctorbobby on Jul 7, 2009, 5:17PM - In reply to bethanco
I just love the convolution of logic & complete refusal to acknowledge any contribution to the problem noted by some of the posts here. I will comment with greater clarity than my 1st post. No one here knows anything more than what we all saw during the episode. My comments here are specific to this family (not sweeping statements), & I will site a few references (should anyone find my conclusions OFFENSIVE, look up the data yourself).


Lets look at the dynamic presented. These are FACTS, look at a tape of the show if you did not have your eyes open in a non-biased fashion.


The family presented has six members. They are all in a dynamic, they all have a contribution to that dynamic. There is no right or wrong (though it is dysfunctional), let's just record the dynamic as presented. As Doctor Phil, & some other posters here point out, each of the participants in that dynamic must take ownership of how they are participating or not.


Loretta (the mother): She is morbidly obese. This is a medical description (not a derogatory, simply a fact). She got that way by over eating & lack of adequate exercise (another fact unless you want to argue the Laws of Thermodynamics). Unless someone is force feeding her, she must take ownership of her weight. Because she is obese, she has developed diabetes & heart problems. She must take ownership of these facts. I have dealt directly with the diets recommended for Diabetes, HyperTension, & Weight Watchers.. You will not find potato chips & dip on any of these diets. Part of the design of these diets is small meals 6 times a day, referred to a "grazing" (not a derogatory, a fact). So Loretta's health problems are of her own doing, she uses her diabetic requirement for regular food intake as an excuse to continue to over eat the wrong things.


Loretta has money issues, overspending & hiding that from her husband (no blaming, just the facts please). Loretta wants change in the dynamic but could not identify exactly any specifics in her correspondence with Doctor Phil. On the show, there was the ultimatum "He must change or I will leave" again without any specific direction. She also was demonstrated to have constructed a lie when Devin's statements from two separate distinct timeframes became a single statement.. "grazing" + "whale" became "grazing whale". Loretta expressed jealousy at the relationship between her husband & the child son.


So Loretta has demonstrated weight issues resulting in serious health problems, money issues, overspending, compulsive lying & an unhealthy resentment towards a father-CHILD relationship. There was also an obvious codependent involvement with Ashley "consoling her" during a breakdown the day before the show. Those are the facts, review the tape before being OFFENDED.


Amy is a twin. She is an adult at 18. At age 15, she was involved in drinking (substance abuse). She insisted in dressing in a provocative age inappropriate way. Refraining from the SLUT word, lets record the fact as sexually promiscuous at 15. She is obese (medical definition, a fact). She is continuously an antagonistic force when involved with the family even though she is now married & living separately. Even though married, she too expressed jealousy at the relationship between her Dad & the child son. She blames her Dad for her current developing communications problems in her own marriage even though she lives apart. She takes no ownership of her part (ie: Amy herself is the only common factor in both areas). Amy says that when she hit her teens, her father became distant (at the birth of the son or the first bipolar episode?).


Ashley is the other twin still at home. She is an adult at 18.  She is obese (medical definition, a fact). She is continuously an antagonistic force when involved with the family. What was described as "disrespectful" would be better described as continuous psychotic attack. There was also an obvious codependent involvement with Loretta. Ashley lied by omission on national TV. The accusation of "He was choking me with his hands around my neck" devolved to a physical push & shove match, Devin grabbing her shirt.. ie: Not what she originally claimed. Only the two of them know what actually happened. It was revealed that Ashley did strike her parent first (an adult striking another adult, demonstrated conduct disorder). Ashley described being called a donkey (a more tactful way of being a stubborn as a mule or behaving like an ass) when Devin was telling her not to overeat. The missing typical bit from all the girls would be to call Devin "controlling" in his attempts to have the girl's exhibit self control per weight issues. When Ashley said: "What Can We/I Do To Help", she was about as sincere as a snake.


The "dead give away" before the commercial break which I spoke of in my original post was in fact the "look" on the two twin sister's faces. On national TV the girl said: "He was choking me" accusation of assault with intent to kill, the look on both girl's faces: malicious, vindictive & smug NOT upset, frightened or distressed.


So the twins have demonstrated weight issues, compulsive lying, oppositional defiance, conduct disorder, & an unhealthy resentment towards a father-CHILD relationship. There was also an obvious codependent involvement with the mother as caretakers. Those are the facts, review the tape before being OFFENDED.


Loretta & Devin's 4 year old son. Not very much was seen except a rather "indifferent" interaction with Loretta, but not sufficient to say anything.


Amy's Husband, shown once off camera.


Devin was defensive, on national TV having to supply all the missing facts & contexts to the confabulations. The women here used the descriptive "abusive", that would in fact presume intent. The women refuse to take ownership of any causality in the dynamic. Devin is now trapped in a "negatively reactive pattern" of dealing with the BiPolar ladies. You may either try to argue that a loving man married and then magically revealed his monstrous abusive nature which somehow is selectively directed at three faultless adult women yet not shown towards the 4 year old child OR acknowledge what is actually going on & why. Oh yeah, Devin is also obese. A worm, but in a reactive mode to mentally ill adult women. At 18 your kids are adults. He needs to get out of the reactive mode. I have my doubts that this has been his behavior continuously for 23 years (his daughters sited teen years). He is also clueless: "I don’t ever see myself provoking bad behavior." but there is more at play.


Doctor Phil was correct in two statements about Devin, but did not elaborate on the second sufficiently..


- Devin & his son have the solid relationship because that love is unconditional.

- Devin should not under any circumstance become physical with his wife, daughters, or son EVEN if they take the first strike BECAUSE once you are in that mode or yelling at them or have lowered yourself to childish behavior (name calling) then you are no longer parenting. The correct things for Devin to do:


If your adult daughter hits you (which she did first), call the police & have her charged with assault.

If your adult daughter is psychotically abusive in the home with your wife & son, call the police & have her sent to a women's shelter.

Of course because of the codependency & dynamic misalignment, Loretta wouldn't let that happen.. remember Devin said he wants Loretta participate as a parent & partner.. Loretta can't communicate what she wants.



- weight issues

- depression without identification of cause (they will cycle irrespective of Devin)

- money issues

- overspending

- compulsive lying

- oppositional defiance

- malicious & vindictive behavior

- conduct disorder, hitting, throwing, breaking

- unhealthy resentment towards a father-CHILD relationship

- codependent involvement

- spousal communications issues (in 2 marriages)

- "splitting", Dad is evil & ALWAYS wrong, Mom is love & ALWAYS right. ALWAYS?


Review the pathology of the genetically heritable medical mental health issues  ADHD-PI (Attention Deficit Disorder Predominantly Inattentive Sub-Type) comorbid BiPolar 2 comorbid Oppositional Defiance Disorder comorbid Conduct Disorder comorbid Borderline Personality Disorder


and per the obesity Google review:

ADHD and Disordered Eating - John Fleming, Ph.D. and Lance Levy, M.B.

(a reason you see so many "Bitter Fat Divorced Women")


REVIEW THE FACTS & BEHAVIORS OBSERVED ABOUT THE FAMILY DYNAMIC & DEVIN (it is very typical, and not the feminist abusive man thing in this case)

Family Therapy for ADHD: Treating Children, Adolescents, & Adults - Craig A. Everett, Sandra Volgy Everett


I could keep going but DUH! What was going on in this family was obvious before the first commercial break.




I respect Doctor Phil for most of his advice, which in relationships revolves around "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" ie: proper respectful interactions recognizing gender differences..


Prescription #2:

Loretta & Devin should take a parenting course or two.


Loretta & Devin got married because they loved each other. They have a four year old son to raise. Because the both of them are obese they must toss out the potato chips & work together to restore their relationships trust & their health. Recognize the mental health issues & work together.


The ADULT daughters both have incomplete separation-individualization issues. They are adults and should be separated geographically from the parents. Both need to recognize the mental health issues & begin proper treatment. Amy needs to inform & involve her husband and worry about her own marriage & relationship. Ashley should be sent to college (or kicked out) with appropriate medical treatment. Both women need to be separated from Loretta to promote their own growth rather than have them living each others lives. These are no longer little girls & need to start acting like adults.


The treatments could range from CBT & Family Therapy to medications for the women if necessary. The daughters are adults & are only exacerbating the situation for Loretta, Devin & the Son. With this prescription, everyone lives happily ever after. If life was so simple.



Doctor Phil will also acknowledge that when the participants in family therapy are not ALL ready to participate, to take ownership, to change their own interactions, the process fails. Realize the reality: "Men are from Mars, 5/6 of Women are from Venus, 1/6 of Women are from Pluto & Beyond!"


The entire bunch have already been to family therapy. The women are untreated & take absolutely no ownership. You are in the majority 90% of marriage failures when dealing with BiPolar.  So Devin, listen up man..


Prescription #1:

- Take a parenting course or two, stop being a reactive twit

- Find a lawyer & work out the details

- Take a hair sample of your wife while she is sleeping (for PCR gene identification of BiPolar)

- Take inventory of the home & finances

- Find an apartment close to schools, daycare, work

- Keep the video rolling of the psychotic ladies

- Have your wife evaluated for BiPolar/BPD/ADHD - She has all the symptoms.

- Remove yourself & son (seek immediate custody)

- Expect high conflict BS, you will be accused of "eating babies" and more in court (so anticipate)

- familiarize yourself with the reality distortions of the feminist types (mentally ill people do not think & perceive reality)

- Count your blessings & expect that your son may be diagnosed ADHD-PI by grade 3. Learn & you can & minimize the negative impact your wife would have.

- Smile & find a woman who is not mentally ill, the 5/6 majority are wonderful. Treat them well & act like an adult.


I have not generalized, we are talking about this family only. This is what I saw & it is obvious (the underlying medical mental health issue). The prescriptions are to "make it better", the participants here are all to blame. The women are mentally ill & Devin is REACTING. As Doctor Phil implored him "you have got to rise above this" (stop reacting to see the forest for the trees). Unfortunate.


As I started: I just love the convolution of logic & complete refusal to acknowledge any contribution to the problem noted by some of the posts here. ..


If you raise children in conflict and in a combative house - you produce combative girls.

I certainly agree, the girls in the house are pills DUE TO THEIR ENVIRONMENT!


ADHD & BiPolar disorders (and the majority of the comorbid disorders) are not caused by bad parenting. They are exacerbated by bad parenting. The cause is genetic damage (poly-morphisms in specific aliles of chromosome 16, 15, 10, 5, & 4 = many different shapes at specific locations of genes = gene damage). Unfortunately when custody is given to the affected parent, they do not have the capacity to do the best for their child. That is unfortunately a FACT. So I would suggest Prescription #1 for the sake of your son. Leave the ladies to stew in their own juices. They will do that even when you are not there.


And no, I am not a therapist. A therapist would never let the participants see his textbooks. A therapists job is to work with clients without passing judgement, without providing information as to what is actually happening.



What happens when you lift the rats up above the maze? Do they start to understand the actual truth?