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October 29, 2009
If you’re a parent and you’re having an affair -- whether it’s physical or emotional -- should you tell your children? Or, if you’re thinking about getting a divorce, how much should the kids know and when should they know it? Dr. Phil meets with a family torn apart over one parent’s desire for a divorce. Carole and Bill have been married for 19 years and have six daughters. Carole questions whether she wants to remain married and feels betrayed by her adult daughters, who accuse her of lying to them and cheating on their dad. Is Carole being completely honest with them about a new man in her life? Is it any of their business? And, are these parents in denial about what’s happening with their younger girls? In a two-part series, Dr. Phil tries to foster some family rehab and to find out if there’s any hope of saving this marriage and this family. Join the discussion.
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84 Comments
(Last: Nov 6, 09, 5:20AM)
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Replied By: restraint on Nov 6, 2009, 5:20AM
In my opinion, one of the biggest problems in our country is that we need to start empowering the family unit.Parents are not allowed to be responsible for their children anymore and people are not responsible for their own behaviors.People need to become accountable for their own behaviors, instead of DHS, psychologists, and the legal system handling people’s problems.
When people are suing companies for foolish things that most people should have had common sense to know, it puts the responsibility on manufacturers instead the family unit.For example, most people should know that you should not put a baby walker on a tabletop, yet there is a warning written on walkers, so evidently, there was somebody who had the gall to sue a company because he/she put the child in a walker on the tabletop.Duh.The woman who sued the fast food restaurant because she spilled coffee on herself while she was in the car.Figure it out—if you have a hot drink higher than your body in a car that is moving about on the highway, there is going to be a possibility of spilling it on yourself.People who have small children simply should not have glass coffee tables—isn’t there any desirable style of wooden table out there?These situations do not need to end with somebody being sued.
I think it is right in these sorts of situations to say to yourself, “Gosh, I did something stupid” and then fix the problem on your own and learn from the experience.When somebody sues a company for these accidents, the person loses his power, and he loses our power because then suddenly others feel like they must watch over us because we are too stupid to know that coffee is hot.We are too stupid to know the right way to raise our children.We give away our power left and right.
DHS is another area where I have concern.Something that is much more scary for a child than watching their parents fight, is the threat of DHS removing the child from his home and thus proving that the parents CANNOT protect the child.That is a very helpless feeling for a child to experience and it ruins the bond that the parent and child have.It ruins families.Parents need to have the “last say” over their children so that children can feel as though their family unit is strong and the children can have a true respect for their parents.Naturally, I am not talking about extreme cases where there is indeed life-threatening abuse.However, some of the reasoning for removing children from their homes is quite petty these days.We need to keep our eye on what is really at risk here.I think it is good and right for the child to know what is going on in its own family IF the parent wants to share it with the child.Dr. Phil says that the parents should not let their children know about family problems, yet DHS is allowed to tell children their own spin on what is going on in the family and Dr. Phil is telling the nation about that very child’s parents’ problems.Yes, the mother told her children what the father had done, but come on, don’t you think other people already know about it?I think it is healthier for the child to hear it from the parents and be prepared if somebody outside his family brings it up, instead of him hearing It the first time from somebody else and losing trust in his parents or wonder what is really going on (in the case of DHS where the child may not get to see the parents and clear up what is really happening).That is what families should be: people who know what the problems are and can address them together.
Can you honestly tell me that a parent who has gone through a pregnancy, invested in the child for several years, worked out issues as a family in emotional situations, financial situations, and educational situations should yield their own values in order to take advice from a Psychologist or DHS worker that probably doesn’t even have children of his/her own, and in most cases has spent little time getting to know the family in comparison to the time it has taken for the family to develop? Families do the best they are able, and I don’t believe the added stress of worrying about DHS and people who think the parents should keep their issues a secret from the children is beneficial.
People are just people and I think it is time for parents to stop taking a beating all of the time.We do the best we are able.Yes, teachers used to be able to smack children around in order to make them mind, but doesn’t Ritalin have the same results?(A tool for the teacher to handle the children) and in most cases I know, the child is drugged during the hours they are in school, so who is it that usually can’t deal with the child?
I think the children SHOULD see the parents argue—, then make up, and go on with life.That way, the child knows that just because people have disagreements, it does not mean the family has failed or that the parents should divorce.Just because there are words exchanged doesn’t have to mean something drastic.People can discuss it or they can hold it in until it grows, festers and they forget how to express it.It depends on how the family communicates.Some people are loud and others are soft spoken.Some parents are hands-on and others have nannies and daycare, some families are direct about what is going on and others are evasive.There should be more respect for families and their differences.Not everybody is the same and the same technique will not work for everybody.The only way this can work is if people begin to respect the family unit.
In the case of the baton girl whose mother was pushing her to succeed, I am in disagreement with Dr, Phil.Most children I know would rather sit in front of a computer or video game, which does not benefit them, nor shape their character in a positive way.That girl was overweight and throwing the baton is probably the only thing that will set her apart from the other students in a positive way.Yes, she received good grades, but that alone is not necessarily an indicator of success depending on how well the other children do.Maybe all the children at that school have good grades because the schools seem to give everybody awards because “everybody is a winner” which really doesn’t apply in the real world.In baton competitions, there are winners AND losers and that little girl has an opportunity to establish herself as a winner.Maybe the mother did not mention the girl’s good character or that she was a good person, because it was just assumed.(My daughter is a good person—what?And your other children aren’t?) Yes, it may be more the mother’s dream than the child’s, but it is the job of the mother to guide the child and decide what direction that child’s life will take.If you ask most small children what their dreams and goals are, you would get some outrageous answers.They are children and not able make complicated decisions on their own, otherwise, they could vote, get married, drink, and smoke.It is the parents’ duty and privilege to lead their children.Quit trying to remove that task from the parent.
In a world where nobody takes responsibility for himself or herself, do you think a child should be able to make her own choices regarding baton?
How beneficial is it for a child to be hearing on national television that his parents are making big mistakes? Parents are not supposed to let the children know that they are fighting, yet it can be announced on television along with a list of how the parents have failed the child.I think it is simply another obstacle that gets in the way of the trust that the child has for the parent. We need to start sticking up for the parents and supporting their decisions.
When people are suing companies for foolish things that most people should have had common sense to know, it puts the responsibility on manufacturers instead the family unit.For example, most people should know that you should not put a baby walker on a tabletop, yet there is a warning written on walkers, so evidently, there was somebody who had the gall to sue a company because he/she put the child in a walker on the tabletop.Duh.The woman who sued the fast food restaurant because she spilled coffee on herself while she was in the car.Figure it out—if you have a hot drink higher than your body in a car that is moving about on the highway, there is going to be a possibility of spilling it on yourself.People who have small children simply should not have glass coffee tables—isn’t there any desirable style of wooden table out there?These situations do not need to end with somebody being sued.
I think it is right in these sorts of situations to say to yourself, “Gosh, I did something stupid” and then fix the problem on your own and learn from the experience.When somebody sues a company for these accidents, the person loses his power, and he loses our power because then suddenly others feel like they must watch over us because we are too stupid to know that coffee is hot.We are too stupid to know the right way to raise our children.We give away our power left and right.
DHS is another area where I have concern.Something that is much more scary for a child than watching their parents fight, is the threat of DHS removing the child from his home and thus proving that the parents CANNOT protect the child.That is a very helpless feeling for a child to experience and it ruins the bond that the parent and child have.It ruins families.Parents need to have the “last say” over their children so that children can feel as though their family unit is strong and the children can have a true respect for their parents.Naturally, I am not talking about extreme cases where there is indeed life-threatening abuse.However, some of the reasoning for removing children from their homes is quite petty these days.We need to keep our eye on what is really at risk here.I think it is good and right for the child to know what is going on in its own family IF the parent wants to share it with the child.Dr. Phil says that the parents should not let their children know about family problems, yet DHS is allowed to tell children their own spin on what is going on in the family and Dr. Phil is telling the nation about that very child’s parents’ problems.Yes, the mother told her children what the father had done, but come on, don’t you think other people already know about it?I think it is healthier for the child to hear it from the parents and be prepared if somebody outside his family brings it up, instead of him hearing It the first time from somebody else and losing trust in his parents or wonder what is really going on (in the case of DHS where the child may not get to see the parents and clear up what is really happening).That is what families should be: people who know what the problems are and can address them together.
Can you honestly tell me that a parent who has gone through a pregnancy, invested in the child for several years, worked out issues as a family in emotional situations, financial situations, and educational situations should yield their own values in order to take advice from a Psychologist or DHS worker that probably doesn’t even have children of his/her own, and in most cases has spent little time getting to know the family in comparison to the time it has taken for the family to develop? Families do the best they are able, and I don’t believe the added stress of worrying about DHS and people who think the parents should keep their issues a secret from the children is beneficial.
People are just people and I think it is time for parents to stop taking a beating all of the time.We do the best we are able.Yes, teachers used to be able to smack children around in order to make them mind, but doesn’t Ritalin have the same results?(A tool for the teacher to handle the children) and in most cases I know, the child is drugged during the hours they are in school, so who is it that usually can’t deal with the child?
I think the children SHOULD see the parents argue—, then make up, and go on with life.That way, the child knows that just because people have disagreements, it does not mean the family has failed or that the parents should divorce.Just because there are words exchanged doesn’t have to mean something drastic.People can discuss it or they can hold it in until it grows, festers and they forget how to express it.It depends on how the family communicates.Some people are loud and others are soft spoken.Some parents are hands-on and others have nannies and daycare, some families are direct about what is going on and others are evasive.There should be more respect for families and their differences.Not everybody is the same and the same technique will not work for everybody.The only way this can work is if people begin to respect the family unit.
In the case of the baton girl whose mother was pushing her to succeed, I am in disagreement with Dr, Phil.Most children I know would rather sit in front of a computer or video game, which does not benefit them, nor shape their character in a positive way.That girl was overweight and throwing the baton is probably the only thing that will set her apart from the other students in a positive way.Yes, she received good grades, but that alone is not necessarily an indicator of success depending on how well the other children do.Maybe all the children at that school have good grades because the schools seem to give everybody awards because “everybody is a winner” which really doesn’t apply in the real world.In baton competitions, there are winners AND losers and that little girl has an opportunity to establish herself as a winner.Maybe the mother did not mention the girl’s good character or that she was a good person, because it was just assumed.(My daughter is a good person—what?And your other children aren’t?) Yes, it may be more the mother’s dream than the child’s, but it is the job of the mother to guide the child and decide what direction that child’s life will take.If you ask most small children what their dreams and goals are, you would get some outrageous answers.They are children and not able make complicated decisions on their own, otherwise, they could vote, get married, drink, and smoke.It is the parents’ duty and privilege to lead their children.Quit trying to remove that task from the parent.
In a world where nobody takes responsibility for himself or herself, do you think a child should be able to make her own choices regarding baton?
How beneficial is it for a child to be hearing on national television that his parents are making big mistakes? Parents are not supposed to let the children know that they are fighting, yet it can be announced on television along with a list of how the parents have failed the child.I think it is simply another obstacle that gets in the way of the trust that the child has for the parent. We need to start sticking up for the parents and supporting their decisions.
Replied By: ervin914w on Nov 4, 2009, 7:47AM
We are witnessing the final stages of this marriage; essentially it is over. The wife wants us to believe that she stayed in Vegas for a week in a hotel room in the same bed with a coworker, and that nothing sexually happened. She says her paramour is an honorable man who would not sexually approach her because she is married. The wife wants her husband, family and the entire audience to believe such an outlandish story.
This paramour is so honorable that he engages in an affair with a married woman. And the wife says she knows the paramour would leave if she broke it off with him to address the needs of her marriage (even if those needs meant an orderly dissolution).
The fact is, the wife has lost all respect for her husband and his inaction is encouraging such disrespect. The very idea that he would permit another man to approach his children and chastise them about their own mother is unfathomable to me.
The paramour needs to be confronted. There should be a cost. The husband also needs to be in consultation immediately with an attorney, his rights as well as the safety of his family dictate that he find legal protection.
However, given that both parents were so clueless as to not even recognize the pregnancy of their 18-year old daughter, this sense of denial assures that this marriage will collapse is a very disorderly manner. Neither spouse has evidenced enough sensibility to gain anything through counseling, perhaps they will get help after the breakup, but not today.
My prayers go out to the children.
This paramour is so honorable that he engages in an affair with a married woman. And the wife says she knows the paramour would leave if she broke it off with him to address the needs of her marriage (even if those needs meant an orderly dissolution).
The fact is, the wife has lost all respect for her husband and his inaction is encouraging such disrespect. The very idea that he would permit another man to approach his children and chastise them about their own mother is unfathomable to me.
The paramour needs to be confronted. There should be a cost. The husband also needs to be in consultation immediately with an attorney, his rights as well as the safety of his family dictate that he find legal protection.
However, given that both parents were so clueless as to not even recognize the pregnancy of their 18-year old daughter, this sense of denial assures that this marriage will collapse is a very disorderly manner. Neither spouse has evidenced enough sensibility to gain anything through counseling, perhaps they will get help after the breakup, but not today.
My prayers go out to the children.
Replied By: berdeniafaye on Nov 2, 2009, 1:02AM
This mother is extremely self serving. She did not notice that her daughter was pregnant as she was so wrapped up in herself, that nothing or no one mattered. If she cared, she would want to be a role model to her daughters, especially the ones at home. She has no one to blame but herself. Because the youngest one will very likely end up pregnant as well. First you DO NOT throw your family under the bus, then lie your ass off as if you are the only one in this mix. When you choose the behavior, you choose the consquences. Seriously, did this woman expect everyone to believe that she slept in bed with this man, for a week in Vegas & not have intercourse?? She was still lying through her teeth. And for her to think that a life with this man would be heaven on earth, is really a fool. First neither one of them would ever be able to trust the other one, since they both are lying & being with someone that they have no business of being with. And the husband certainly had no back bone. I feel for these two youngest daughters, for they certainly don't have two parents that are paying attention. I pray this woman wakes up before it is too late. For the grass is NEVER greener on the other side. You reap what you sow.
Replied By: ladyfyr2 on Oct 31, 2009, 7:48PM - In reply to buttercup18
I do not agree with this mother's actions, but I do think the grown daughters act like spoiled brats. It is their father's place to speak up and act and maybe if he would they wouldn't feel the need to be quite so vocal. As far as the daughter that didn't know she was pregnant...I, too, did not believe her for a second. Girls are so conscious of their bodies, weight, etc...and with so many people mentioning the possibility to her, if nothing else, that would have tuned her in. At the beginning of the show, during the "what's coming up" video they played, I immediately when I saw the pictures of the all the daughter's thought...hmm, that one is pregnant...so give me a break. I'm not buying it...
Replied By: roobster on Oct 30, 2009, 3:04PM - In reply to steveh64
Thanks for responding to my post. I understand these statistics and am glad to hear them - I would at least like to think of myself as being rather open minded. There are other factors that play into the results, too - socioeconomic status being a big one. Such a survey in an affluent area would broaden the picture. You are talking about, for the most part, an extremely poor area here. It all feeds into a bigger problem, and a study can be found to back nearly any theory.
What I am trying to say is that an unmarried couple are not, simply because of that fact, bad parents or bad human beings by any means. Don't get me started on statistics about child abuse, spousal abuse, divorce, and so on among married couples. :) It's a choice and someone who chooses not to marry should not have to carry a stigma in society because of it.
What I am trying to say is that an unmarried couple are not, simply because of that fact, bad parents or bad human beings by any means. Don't get me started on statistics about child abuse, spousal abuse, divorce, and so on among married couples. :) It's a choice and someone who chooses not to marry should not have to carry a stigma in society because of it.
Replied By: 2distresse on Oct 30, 2009, 1:09PM - In reply to buttercup18
I find the mother to be very selfish and immature. She has involved her family in her mess and expects them to cheer her on as she tries to find herself. A responsible mother wouldn't run off to Vegas to play "golf" and leave her twelve year old daughter. The mother acted like a teen ager who was out experimenting. Time to grow up!
Replied By: damisses123 on Oct 30, 2009, 12:48PM
I want Carole to know that I have walked in her shoes. You are making a terrible mistake to walk out on your family is the worst decision you could make.This romance with this man will not last. First this new man is never going to trust you ,the thought of you cheating on him will always be in the back of his mind.Secondly you destroy the trust of your children.You have not even addressed the underlining problem there is something going on with you and you need to find out what it is and deal with it because if you don't you won't be happy with anyone.Stop lying to everyone and say that you slept with this man.Ray Charles can see that you have.This is a no win situation no one wins not even you.Carole please listen to what I'm saying I've been there it was the worst time of my life,I thought it would make me happy it didn't ,if could have gone back and did it over I would have.Years later I was blessed to actually find another good man and I can honestly say I would never do things the same way. I will never break my vows and never again hurt my children .
Replied By: fromthesquare on Oct 30, 2009, 12:48PM
How would you feel if YOUR mother was cheating on the father that you loved? Of course this affects them! Whether they have a voice in her decision- maybe not- They certainly are being ripped apart by their mother's actions.
To think that your adult children cannot or should not offer moral guidance is just plain wrong. Should they ignore the elephant in the room and talk about the weather?
To think that your adult children cannot or should not offer moral guidance is just plain wrong. Should they ignore the elephant in the room and talk about the weather?
Replied By: ziggy2009 on Oct 30, 2009, 12:38PM - In reply to steveh64
I like your analagy re smoking.....and I think it fits well with this family's situation.
Cheating, lying etc doesn't always affect everyone the same way BUT this isn't about it is affecting everyone else. This is about how it is specifically affecting these children and the family as a whole. I think the mother is a very smug person even with tears in her eyes even as she's smiling. In my book this marriage would be over - she should count her blessings that her children want anything to do with her after all her lies. Its not that she wants out - its that once she got found out she continued to lie to the people who love her the most. I bet that guy she's with DOES NOT love her as much as her children do.
She raised her children to believe that lying and cheating is wrong, then thought they could deal with it when she did? Her expressions show that she really doesn't realize the harm she is doing. Like she finally got out from under some authoritarian rule and decided to do the rebellious teenager thing - sneaking around for excitement. How old is she????
Cheating, lying etc doesn't always affect everyone the same way BUT this isn't about it is affecting everyone else. This is about how it is specifically affecting these children and the family as a whole. I think the mother is a very smug person even with tears in her eyes even as she's smiling. In my book this marriage would be over - she should count her blessings that her children want anything to do with her after all her lies. Its not that she wants out - its that once she got found out she continued to lie to the people who love her the most. I bet that guy she's with DOES NOT love her as much as her children do.
She raised her children to believe that lying and cheating is wrong, then thought they could deal with it when she did? Her expressions show that she really doesn't realize the harm she is doing. Like she finally got out from under some authoritarian rule and decided to do the rebellious teenager thing - sneaking around for excitement. How old is she????
Replied By: nan_c_k on Oct 30, 2009, 12:08PM - In reply to syncrinicity
When there are two younger "sisters" at home acting out in the same way their Mom is then YES they have every right to speak up. Boyfriends running around shirtless and being allowed to spend hours in the ones bedroom. And then the Mom wonders "why!" I have no sympathy for her....I do for her husband and her girls and her grandchildren. There's Grammy out getting spray tans and boozin' it up and smoking and cheating on Grandpa.....yea right I'd leave my grandchildren with her!
